An ugly reality

Townhall.com Thomas Sowell Apr 18, 2006

Thank heaven for the massive marches across the country by those favoring illegal immigrants. These marches revealed the ugly truth behind the fog of pious words and clever political spin from the media and from both Democrats and Republicans in Washington.

“Guest workers”? Did any of the strident speakers, with their in-your-face bombast in Spanish, sound like guests? Did they sound like people who wanted to become Americans?

Were they even asking for amnesty? They didn’t sound like they were asking for anything. They sounded like they were telling. Demanding. Threatening.

. . . more

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33 thoughts on “An ugly reality”

  1. The demonstrations, to my mind, only underscore how President Bush is definitely not a courageous leader. At least not on the issues that matter to me. He may be willing to veto a bill denying port management rights to an Arab company. He may be willing to invade Iraq and occupy it, but when it comes to opposing PC hysteria at home – President Bush takes a pass along with most of the GOP.

    What was on display in these marches is a 5th column of unyielding, unassimiliated, and angry illegal immigrants.

    (Lest you think I have anything against immigrants, I met my wife while teaching in Poland and brought her to the U.S. when my stint was up at a university there. She got her citizenship in 2004.)

    They are not looking to become Americans, but are rather looking to take over. They often say as much. I can’t remember how many Mexicans I’ve encountered who look forward to the day when ‘Espanol’ is the primary language of my home state of Florida. They are already planning for the day when they will own everything, and we will be the ‘guests’ in their home country.

    Where is the GOP when it comes to defending America’s cultural uniqueness? Where is the GOP when it comes to standing up for our borders and the rule of law? Surely there are some good Republicans in the House, but the Senate is awash in treason and the White House leads us down the path to virtual annihilation as a nation.

    Where is the outrage over this in the conservative rank and file? Sure, some folks are mad, but this coddling of an angry treasonous bunch of lawbreakers is deserving of impeachment.

    And, yet, the conservatives stay remarkably stoic in the face of something that simply can not be tolerated. Were Clinton doing this to us, the GOP would be slashing and burning.

    Jesus and the Apostles spoke often of the dangers of wolves in sheep’s clothing. The false friend is more dangerous that the open enemy. It is better to deal with one who rejects the faith, rather than a heretic who seeks to twist it for his own ends.

    I think the same thing applies in politics. Here is a clear example where the White House is not just out-of-touch with its base, but is clearly and blatantly threatening our very existance as a nation. But, we are reacting as if it were merely a dispute over a new porkbarrell project.

    Conservatives need to wake up while there is still a chance the we aren’t going to lose our country.

  2. I’m amazed Glen that you don’t think your comments have a tinge of xenophobia.

    I work very closely with Spanish mission programs in Florida. And what you describe is the exception, not the norm.

    Yes, there are a few who buy into Aztlan and talk about the “re-conquest” of the north. But as my Mexican father-in-law has said, they only do it because their parents don’t know what they’re doing in college.

    For the most part many have come to work and they work hard to assimilate into society (in fact the busiest programs for the missions is ESL courses). The reason that it appears that the Hispanic community isn’t integrating is because of the size. For every one family that moves out of an ethnic community two are replacing them.

    And if you did some research you’d find that many of the anti-bilingual propositions in Calif. in the past were supported by a large number of Hispanics, because they realize that without a grasp of English their children would be relegated to being janitors and maids.

    Yes illegal immigration needs to be addressed. But it’s more than demonizing people as the fifth column. Or, a xenophobic call for defending “cultural uniqueness” (which I could careless about. Besides, enchiladas taste much better than lutefisk and horseradish sauce).
    To stem immigration there needs to be changes in Mexico’s internal economic politics that it’s better to stay home than risk going North.

  3. Let’s see, what is Xenophobia? The dictionary defines it as “A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples.”

    I’m trilingual, including Spanish. I’ve been to 14 foreign countries, and my wife is an immigrant to the United States. My kids carry dual passports when we travel, and I couldn’t care less if my children one day decide to make Poland their home or even any country in the EU their home, rather than live out their lives in the United States.

    But if they decide to living Poland, I will never excuse them not speaking Polish and not adapting to the Polish way of life. If they expect to move to a foreign nation and have the people of that nation adapt to their presence rather than the reverse, they will get zero sympathy or support from me.

    “Move to Russia if you like, but if you plan to stay there, then be prepared to be a good Russian,” if what my children are learning from their cradle.

    I applaud your work with Spanish missions. I think that is highly laudable. I have no problem with the liturgy being conducted in Spanish. The church is about saving souls, and it needs to reach out, even to illegal immigrants. The church has a role that is different than the state.

    I do have a problem with street signs in Spanish, ballots in Spanish, and the mandate that all government services be conducted in Spanish. I’d have the same problem if it Mandarin Chinese or Vietnamese or even Polish.

    The language of the United States is English. The cultural heritage of the United States and the legal grounding is Anglo-saxon. Immigrants to the United States should embrace both.

    I agree with you – the size of the Hispanic immigration and the new ‘barrio’ lifestyle that is growing is the culprit. In manageable numbers, we would be assimiliating the new immigrants the same as we did the old.

    But the numbers aren’t manageable. I daresay that most of the assimiliated Hispanic immigrants know this, and are just as against illegal immigration as I am. A lot of the most patriotic people I know are of Hispanic origin.

    But that doesn’t change the fact that a massive number of unassimilated, non-English speaking illegals are not a serious threat to our cultural cohesion. It isn’t about cute Mexican restaurants with good food. It’s about my children being a liguistic minority in their own homeland.

    Is that xenophobia, or is it simply that America as a nation has a right to its unique identity same as Mexico and that if we allow Spanish to become the de facto language of multiple states that unique identity will be destroyed?

    I don’t believe that the Aztlan ‘plot’ is widespread among Mexican immigrants anymore than the ‘Islamist’ plot is widespread among Muslims. Its just that they come here and want us to adapt to them instead of the other way around, and that causes profound cultural changes (more than just restaurant menus) that create a nation that is more theirs than ours. They demand a lot of things that our granting is going to have repurcussions far into the future.

    I don’t mind immigration within limits that preserve our linguistic and cultural heritage. I don’t want the U.S. to be Mexico. I don’t want Mexico to be the U.S. I don’t want Poland to be France, or France to be the UK. God made them all and they should all retain their native culture which should evolve slowly over time. Not be trampled in a rush across a border.

    The U.S. can do nothing about Mexico’s internal problems. We can do a lot about our border control, however.

  4. Aztlan, it is the politically active that count

    Several elected California politicians including the Lieutenant Governor and the Mayor of Los Angeles belong to an organization called Mecha which has as its stated and unrepudiated goal the “reconquest” of the American southwest.

    Why is someone who takes them seriously considered xenophobic? This is a type of moral blindness that baffles me. Mechans claim the Southwestern United States and persons who notice that fact are xenophobic. Hamas rattles its sabres for the death of Israel and persons who notice that fact as Islamophobic?

    Even if the majority of hispanics do not support this idea, the politically active ones do. They have promoted so-called bi-lingual education which never quites gets around to teaching the children English, they have lobbied to underine the status of English as the sole language of America and they have succeeded in many ways to destroy the assimilationist policy that America formerly had in place and to discredit the very idea of immigrant assimilation.

  5. No Missourian what is xenophobic is to argue that people must accept a “cultural uniqueness”. It’s the same type of mentality that permeated 19th-century nativism. That to be a true American an individual must conform to being a WASP. I’m not sure how you correlate that with Islamapobic. It has more to do than just witnessing something. Glen’s comments about not being xenophobic are like that old joke about not being racist because of having black friends.

    As far as bi-lingual education, yes you’re right it has been a failure. Most Hispanics have realized it and have been arguing and voting against the policies to end it. But much of the problem to ending bilingual education has been school administrators and liberal organizations that have been using it to further their political causes. The best example is Calif.’s prop 227 that was passed with Hispanic support, but now has been tied up in the courts by special interests.

    As far as politically active, the vocal leftists you hear are just that leftists. Instead of using green house gases to scare people to vote for their cause. They exploit race. They’ve taken their political right out of The Jesse Jackson Manual of Race Exploitation for Political Causes. It’s their will to political power.

    Arguments for Atzlan are no different than Farakahn’s comments for a separate African-American state. It’s pandering to the politically naive. But the concept is not widespread through the states. It’s support is limited to a group in the Southwest. Because if you consider that the Hispanic community is not a monolithic entity. Guatamalans don’t have the same interests as Cubans and Chileans.

  6. Augie I haven’t used the word illegal at all. I’m not talking about illegal immigration but stereotypes. Not all people who come to the United States who speak Spanish are illegal.

  7. Well, JBL, since you haven’t used the term illegal at all and you’re not talking about illegal aliens, how do your comments relate to a post that begins,

    Thank heaven for the massive marches across the country by those favoring illegal immigrants.

    I am well aware that many Spanish-speaking immigrants are here legally. I respect them greatly and I am glad they are here. However, I do not respect people who violate our country’s immigration laws. I have to confess I have lost all patience with people who conflate the acts of legal immigration and illegal entry. You probably noticed a bit of that conflation in the mainstream media reports of the recent marches.

  8. “Glen’s comments about not being xenophobic are like that old joke about not being racist because of having black friends. ”

    JBL, you seem to be taking the brunt here but I do not see how you can say this. Arguing that each country has a way of life or general culture (and that becoming a part of this culture is a minimal standard) is not in any way the same thing as “racism” as is commonly defined. Perhaps you support a vision of the world as a grand multi-cultural nation without nation-states. If so, then I suppose you could stretch the definition into what you have above. I don’t think you would support that though……

  9. Speaking of stereotypes, how about the stereotypic labeling someone who objects to massive violation of his or her country’s immigration laws as a racist or a xenophobe?

    The conflation of legal immigration and illegal border-crossing under the neutral term “immigration” does a lot to forward that stereotype. That particular stereotype, incidentally, seems to be applied only to Americans. Silly us.

  10. Augie writes: “JBL, what part of ‘illegal’ do you not understand?”

    The situation is somewhat more complicated. Many times men who are working legally in the country will bring their families up. (This should please those who claim to be the caretakers of “family values.”) The men are legal but the wives and children aren’t.

    Becoming legal involves a process that can sometimes take several years. So a person can be here “illegally,” but working on attaining legal status. So you see “illegal aliens,” aka wives of men working legally in the country, taking ESL classes. You see “illegal aliens,” aka children of men working legally in the country, in public schools.

    In some cases the situation with the children is especially unfortunate. Sometimes you’ll see children who have been here for years who are “illegal.” They have minimal command of Spanish and sometimes have not even been to Mexico in years. Were they sent back to Mexico they literally would be lost. They wouldn’t know anyone, wouldn’t know the culture, and wouldn’t have much facility with Spanish. (When a child comes here from Mexico at, say, 7 years old, that child is going to have a 7-year-old ability in Spanish. Even years later, the ability in Spanish is not going to be much different, unless the child actually studies Spanish.

    Another problem is the sheer number of people involved. Last I heard there was something like 12 million illegal aliens in the country. As one blogger recently commented,

    John McCain, citing the columnist George Will, noted that it would take 200,000 buses in a line 1,700 miles long to deport 11-12 million people in what would probably be the largest mass deportation in history. The numbers boggle the mind! It’s one thing to act like a retarded carnival barker while pandering to your electorate and sounding tough on immigration. It’s quite another to face the reality of the situation.

    The cost of detaining, processing, and transporting all of these people would require a couple hundred billion dollars.

    Even if we could eject all of these people and seal the borders, the Hispanic population would continue to grow due to births and legal immigration.

  11. Jim, where did I say I had a problem with the Hispanic population growing in the US? I do not. Please see my previous comments about stereotypes, one of which I think you are leveling at me. In any case, you said,

    Even if we could eject all of these people and seal the borders, the Hispanic population would continue to grow due to births and legal immigration.

    Actually, I would be quite happy with simply sealing the borders. A fence sounds good to me. After we control our border, we can talk about guest workers. Not the other way around.

  12. JBL wrote,

    “No Missourian what is xenophobic is to argue that people must accept a “cultural uniqueness”. It’s the same type of mentality that permeated 19th-century nativism. That to be a true American an individual must conform to being a WASP. I’m not sure how you correlate that with Islamapobic. It has more to do than just witnessing something. Glen’s comments about not being xenophobic are like that old joke about not being racist because of having black friends.”

    Hmmm… It’s hard, really hard, to take seriously someone as a conservative that uses standard leftist attack lines like ‘xenophobia,’ especially when leveled against someone with a foreign-born wife who speaks two foreign languages fluently and has lived as a resident alien abroad.

    But hey, to each their own. If, JBL, it makes you feel better to sling those kinds of silly charges about, then by all means go ahead. Perhaps you should throw in ‘neo-NAZI’ while you are at it. That way you can accuse me of considering my Slavic wife a ‘sub-human’ and wanting to send my own half-Slavic children to the gas chambers.

    Here is a little snippet on Teddy Roosevelt, for example:

    “Americanization” was a favorite theme of Roosevelt’s during his later years, when he railed repeatedly against “hyphenated Americans” and the prospect of a nation “brought to ruins” by a “tangle of squabbling nationalities.”

    He advocated the compulsory learning of English by every naturalized citizen. “Every immigrant who comes here should be required within five years to learn English or to leave the country,” he said in a statement to the Kansas City Star in 1918. “English should be the only language taught or used in the public schools.”

    He also insisted, on more than one occasion, that America has no room for what he called “fifty-fifty allegiance.” In a speech made in 1917 he said, “It is our boast that we admit the immigrant to full fellowship and equality with the native-born. In return we demand that he shall share our undivided allegiance to the one flag which floats over all of us.”

    Was Teddy a ‘xenophobe?’ I don’t think so, what I think is that Teddy Roosevelt had already seen the mess that competing nationalities within multi-ethnic states was causing in Europe by the dawn of the 20th century. He had no wish to extend that Balkanization to the United States, which is why he stressed assimilation.

    I have never stated that we should not accept Hispanic immigrants. What I have stated repeatedly is that a large number of illegal immigrants that do not assimilate and do not adapt to our culture and language form a grave threat to our continuation as a nation. The same would be true of massive Russian immigration to Poland, or massive Visigothic immigration to the Roman Empire.

    Then again, the same thing happened with large Anglo immigration to ‘Norte Mexico’ which is currently Texas. Those immigrants weren’t coming with the idea of declaring independence. But they founded their own communities, and when the Mexican government was not to their liking, they rebelled. Numbers and cohesion equal power. If you raise up a large group of people who consider themselves different from everyone else and who refuse to become good citizens, then you are going to pay the piper for that. Santa Ana found that out the hard way.

    But so did the Queen of Hawaii, when she allowed a large number of Americans to settle in her kingdom. They also took over, and I don’t think they intended to at the beginning either.

    Which is why the ‘Aztlan’ thing is not even the issue. Most illegals are not thinking that strategically, but they do want accomodations for their language, their holidays, etc. and those accomodations set the stage for a future confrontation if the soon-to-be displaced former majority decide they don’t like being pushed out of their own homes.

    The language of America is English. Our form of government is a Republic. Our system of laws is based on the Anglo-Saxon model developed over a millenia. The founding religion is Christianity. These are facts that constitute who we are as a people. This isn’t about ‘nativism.’ It is about protecting our own culture, even as we understand why others would do the same.

    In case you forgot, I’m the one who is against global military crusades to remake the world in our image because of my respect for other cultures and their unique identities. The fact that I recognize that my own nation has one and that I want to protect it by assuring a minimal level of assimilation in immigrants cannot be rationally classed as ‘xenophobia’ except by the most hysterical leftist.

    A bi-lingual America in which Spanish is necessary to even shop at the local supermarket is not my homeland. No one has to become a ‘WASP.’ I’m not even one of those. There is plenty of room for differences in religion and cultural prefences that do NOT keep immigrants from assimilating into American life.

    After all, the Italians are Catholics also, and they are embedded in our nation’s life so thoroughly that two of the Supreme Court justices have Italian heritage, not to mention a potential president (Guiliani). They would certainly be suprised to learn that ‘WASP’-ishness is required to assimilate into American society, or to find out that America has no right to its own unique culture and identity.

  13. Augie,

    I really think you have a point here. If congress is serious about doing something about illegal border crossing, let them come up with a plan and effectively implement a way to seal the border. I think reducing illegal border crossing by at least a factor of 100 would be a reasonable criteria of success. THEN, and only then, do they begin to legislate on the illegal aliens already here.

    Of course, this will not happen (we will end up with another amnesty plan – called “comprehensive” of course). The reason is that conservatives have too little influence on the libertarian business interests in the senate.

    In the unlikely event of a republican loss of a chamber this year, we of course will simply be hearing about how quickly we can get all these undocumented Democrats registered…:)

  14. Stop right there Jesus and show me your passport!

    Individuals seeking care through Medicaid beginning on July 1 will be required under federal law to show proof of U.S. citizenship — such as a birth certificate, passport or another form of identification — the Boston Globe reports. The requirement was included in the Deficit Reduction Act of 2005, which President Bush signed into law earlier this year. The provision’s intent is to prevent undocumented immigrants from claiming to be citizens in order to receive benefits only provided to legal residents, according to the Globe. Under federal law, undocumented immigrants can receive only emergency care through Medicaid.

    Some health care specialists are concerned that with the new citizenship requirements, many Medicaid beneficiaries, including those who are mentally disabled or homeless, will not be able to produce documentation and will have difficulty receiving health services.

    http://kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports/rep_index.cfm?DR_ID=36562

    Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43
    a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ 44
    18 Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ 45 He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ 46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

    http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew25.htm

  15. NOte 11. Everyone knows how to stem illegal immigration? Eliminate the attractant: illegal employment.

    Conduct a serious enforcement effort against employers which hire illegals.

    Michelle Malkin has a chart that shows that enforcement efforts against employers (THE MAGNET THAT ATTRACTS ILLEGALS) have dropped 95% in the last decade. Yes, 95%.

    Get rid of the cheese and the mouse will look for another house. All the government has to do is a few high-profile prosecutions and employers will get the message. Everyone knows how to solve the illegal immigration problem and it doesn’t require massive deportations of individuals, it just requires the same level of enforcement we twenty years ago.

  16. Note 15, What about root causes Dean? Why isn’t Mexico responsible for something? Why stop at Mexico? Why not Guatemala? San Salvador? China? Sudan? Nigeria? Haiti? Zimbabwe? Morroco? Tunisia? Brazil? Argentina?

    Why aren’t you preaching to the Mexican authorities? Why aren’t you asking why a country rich in natural resources can’t support its population?

    Dean, according to your avowed criteria the federal treasury would be in even redder, red ink than it is now.

    The Left is given to using the term “root causes.” Perhaps you should adopt that posture now. What are the “root causes” of Mexican economic failure?
    What about decades of corrupt, socialist economic policies?

    Why do you think that America should be the dumping ground for the failures of the corrupt Mexican elite?

    Where is your campaign for reform of Mexican government? Why are you tasking Americans for taking care of Mexicans?

    Why is America responsible for everything in the entire world, Why is no one else EVER responsible for anything.

  17. Immigration Laws Of What Country ?

    1. Only professionals or investors can immigrate to the country. No unskilled laborers will be allowed in. Investors must be able to invest at least 40,000 times the daily average wage. If they can’t, they are not allowed in.

    2. Immigrants may purchase property, but locations and availability will be limited. Ocean front property cannot be purchased by immigrants. It is exclusively for citizens born in the country.

    3. Immigrants cannot vote nor can they be elected to any public office.

    4. Immigrants cannot collect any type of government assistance.

    5. Immigrants cannot protest the countries government, policies or president.

    6. Immigrants cannot display a flag of a foreign country.

    7. Immigrants who have illegally entered the country will be found and imprisoned.

    Answer: Mexico

  18. It is innacurate to describe undocumented immigrants as a huge drain on federal and state budgets. While undocumented immigrants undoubtly utilize services from federal and state-funded programs, that cost is mostly offset by the taxes they pay, and the general boost to the economy their spending provides. At most undocumented aliens are responsible for a small net increase in state and federal spending.

    Undocumented immigrants receiving a paycheck have withholding for federal and state taxes, (as well as for social security and Medicare benefits which they will never recieve), taken from their wages just like everyone else. Since it is not illegal for an undocumented alien to purchase a home, any homeowner who was undocumented would also pay property taxes. Undocumented immigrants pay sales taxes and the money they spend for food, shelter and other neccesities, generates additional sales for businesses in the communities in which they reside.

    One defense of Walmart and it’s labor practices that we frequently hear is that their low prices make food and other neccesities more affordable for lower-income Americans. The same argument could be made for the labor of undocumented immigrants. How much more would food cost if the 9.3 million undocumented immigrants were not available to stoop in the fields to pick crops or cut up chickens for Tyson Foods and other meatpackers?

    The immigration situation we have in the United States certainly has many problems, but it is unfair to blame the struggling Mexican simply trying to keep his family out of poverty and give them a higher standard of living. Isn’t that why all of our forebears came to America?

    It is the governments of Mexco and the United States that are to blame. Mexico is to blame for not doing more to improve the lot of their people at home, and the Us government is to blame for not opening up immigration to relfect the labor needs of our economy.

  19. Immigration Laws Of What Country ?

    Mexico’s oppressive laws don’t seem an argument for not welcoming Mexican immigrants.

  20. Note 19 Dean, joines the Chamber of Commerce in undercutting the minimum wage

    the US government is to blame for not opening up immigration to relfect the labor needs of our economy.

    Today in farms, factories, restaurants, hotels and construction crews illegal aliens are working for $2.00 an hour. This $2.00 an hour is $3.75 less than the American minimum wage. This $2.00 is 10 times what a Mexican laborer can earn in Mexico if he can find a job.

    Illegal aliens are not taking jobs that Americans won’t take. They are taking wages that Americans are prohibited from legally taking.

    In many prior posts, Dean, argued heavily for minimum wage and minimum benefit laws. This is totally inconsistent with his support for lax borders. A huge influx of unskilled labor will drive down wages for the most vulnerable people in our labor pool. It will not drive down wages for journalists, lawyers, engineers—it will drive down wages for the very people that Dean claims his supports.

  21. Note 19, Deans compassion for the Mexican poor means impoverishing the American poor. America as a pinata

    Only so much room in Dean’s boat, illegal aliens getting pulled into the boat and legal American citizens and resident get pushed out IF THEY ARE POOR.

    In the great liberal scale of relative compassion, persons who obey the law are jettisoned in favor of those who hold law in contempt.

    This is why that today’s current “liberals” are in fact, anti-social, and anti-civilization. They are Rousseau’s spoiled children asking “why does there have to be rules?” Because law and a consistent and uniform justice system, including enforced borders promotes justice, peace and prosperity.

    Dean’s route drives us all into the pit of corrupt, socialistic and impoverished third world countries.

    After the American pinata is broken, where do Dean’s poor go next?

  22. Mexico’s oppressive laws don’t seem an argument for not welcoming Mexican immigrants.

    *sigh* The level of liberal discourse on this issue is so low as to be depressing. It never rises above “can’t we all just get along”. This quip being a good example. Mexico’s “oppressive” laws are actually quite in keeping with many many countries around the world. They do what a country and a culture is supposed to do. Juli, you do have a dictionary do you not? I point to you the difference between “illegal” and “legal”…

    Oh, I too would like to say “Christ is Risen”!!! Being a convert, I skipped the ethnic meal and had a hamburger!! 🙂

  23. Dean, I was interested in your comment beginning

    It is innacurate to describe undocumented immigrants as a huge drain on federal and state budgets. While undocumented immigrants undoubtly utilize services from federal and state-funded programs, that cost is mostly offset …

    It convinces me that we are talking about two different groups of people. What a misunderstanding. I’ve been complaining about people who violate our country’s immigration laws. By your use of the term “undocumented immigrant,” I have to assume that you are referring to non-citizens who reside in this coutry legally, but have merely misplaced their INS paperwork. I can’t imagine there are all that many people in that situation, however.

    Anyway, I’m glad we cleared this up. For a while there, I thought you were supporting massive violation of our laws.

  24. Augie, Dean and the Rule of Law

    Dean and I have had hours of discussion about the illegality of today’s immigration. After arduous effort, I was able to persuade Dean that MAYBE, just MAYBE, the rule of law MIGHT, just MIGHT, be a beneficial idea, that the rule of law MIGHT, just MIGHT, serve to protect the weak, the financially weak, the physically weak and the politically weak.

    Dean’s attachment to the very concept of the “rule of law” is tenuous.

    By the way, America is now home to Hanson’s disease, leprosy, something which has spread to America due to illegal immigration. Hanson’s disease is spreading among conclaves of illegals. This disease was never native to North America, now it is here.

    Emergency rooms in the Southwest are overwhelmed by antibiotic-resistant tuberculosis. The cost of tending to this population has overwhelmed many of the emergency rooms in L.A. The number of available emergency rooms in LA has shrunk disturbingly because of the massive burden of illegal immigration. This shrinkage of emergency rooms affects every single human being.

  25. Note 23. Christopher, after the Anastasi service on Sunday, about 3am, one gas station was open. I went in and bought a hot dog. Whopper Jrs. are good too but I haven’t had one yet. After the Agape Service on Sunday, we have a huge dinner in our parish, lamb, salad, breads, deserts, iced tea, wine — really a nice meal and great fellowship. We crammed 310 people into the social hall and had to turn people away unfortunately — just ran out of room. Next year we might spill over into the yard, perhaps put up a small tent or something. We read the Gospel in twelve languages. It was good.

    Christos Anesti!

  26. Note 20 Juli Note 23 Christopher

    Juli writes:
    Mexico’s oppressive laws don’t seem an argument for not welcoming Mexican immigrants

    First, let us address “welcoming Mexican immigrants.” The use of the word “immigrants” fails to distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants. This is an important distinction. It is the very core of the controversy and should not be ignored.

    Second, America has “welcomed” more immigrants to its shores than any other country in the history of the world. This is true whether the number of immigrants are measured by absolute numbers or in terms of a percentage of the population. Saudi Arabia does not allow the naturalization of any foreigner, full stop. Jordan does not allow Jews to become citizens or to own land in Jordan. China does not accept refugees from the country that Kim Il Jong has turned into an outdoor prison. Perhaps Juli’s concern could be directed to these “unwelcoming” policies.

    Third, borders have many useful and important purposes. Ask an epidemiologist. Border controls serve to stop the spread of disease across borders to new populations. This is a good thing. A person suffering from leprosy would never have been allowed to gain entry to the United States through legal channels. The existence of this disease in North America could only occur through illegal immigration. Let us hope that neither Juli nor any of her friends contract this vicious disease here in the North America. Hanson’s disease is just one example of many.

    Fourth, borders stop the escape of criminals from law enforcement. Surely we would like to see Mexican criminals returned to Mexico for arrest, just as we would like to see American criminals returned to America for arrest. Porous borders and lax enforcement make this nearly impossible. Juli, do you think it is fair that a criminal can escape arrest and go on to hurt more people because he can skip across the border? Julik, have you read the reports from American and other law enforcement about the M13 gang from Mexico. A police official from L.A. stated that the M13 gang was so strong, so well organized that it represented a “national security issue.” Juli, do you want to see the growth of armed criminal militias as they exist in Columbia? Well, the M13 gang is the beginning.

    Fifth, we have already suffered a terrorist attack from an illegal alien who received amnesty under Reagan. Two of the convicted terrorists from the first World Trade Center bombing received amnesty under Reagan’s program. They claimed to be agricultural workers.

    Sixth, the current federal bureaucracy is utterly incapable of properly screening incoming “migrants” to reject criminals, terrorists and those carrying contagious diseases. ICE is overwhelmed with responsibilities now, there is ample Congressional testimony to that effect.

    Seventh, allowing amnesty would prompt one of the greatest population shifts in human history. Millions upon millions would arrive on our shores from China, Indonesia, the Caribbean and Africa. Immigration is more than Mexico, it is the world.

    Eighth, the addition of 12 to 20 million impoverished, non-English speaking, low-skilled workers would swamp our existing social welfare system including schools. The quality of assistance available for all would seriously decline.

    Ninth, the influx of millions upon millions of person who do not feel a duty to assimilate will result in a fracturing of the social fabric and the continued creation of hard core cultural enclaves. Millions of people in L.A. do not use English as they go through their ordinary days. Juli, do you really want to see the cultural Balkanization of America?

    Tenth, immigration from the third world is a woman’s issue. Third world cultures seriously lag the United States in their treatment of women. Latin men are notorious for asserting what they consider their right to beat their wives. Muslim immigrants from Somalia are living in de facto polygamous marriages. Female genital mutilation has begun to be practiced in the United States and it was brought here by Muslim immigrants.

    Eleven, allowing Mexican immigration on a large scale, supports the corrupt plutocracy which has a death grip on Mexico. That plutocracy is relieved of being held accountable for its corruption and failure.

    So, although I support a measured and carefully controlled growth of the population through immigration. I support the rule of law, and the administration of an immigration system that helps America.

  27. Note 29, Juli, Response? Willling to take responsibility for the policies you advocate?

    Cheap labor promotes discourages technical advancement.
    About 15 years ago the American tomato growers claimed that they would go out of business without cheap Mexican labor. By “cheap” I mean $1.00 an hour labor. Well, they didn’t get as much cheap human labor as they wanted and the industry came up with MACHINES that harvest tomatoes. Are you familliar with the nature of harvesting work? It is backbreaking, some of the toughest work in the world. Now, much of tomato harvesting is done by machine, this is good. Humans should not have to do such work. It is also good that machines dig coal underground, thereby reducing risk to humans. Chape labor effectively blocks technical progress of this type.

    Amnesty promotes contempt for law. Without the rule of law Steven Hawking would not be able to survive. (Steven Hawking is one of the world’s greatest practicing physicists, he is confined to a wheel chair.)

    What the rule of law means, Juli After the fall of the Roman Empire, what we now know as Europe fell into chaos. The Romans had maintained some kind of order. Now that order was gone. People had to group together to defend themselves against anarchy. Warlords arose and acquired armies and claimed turf. People had to pay warlords to protect them from bandits and other warlords. The physically weak were very vulnerable to violence by criminals now undeterred by Roman armies. This is the alternative to the rule of law, yet, few on this board have any respect for this essence of civilization.

    You can destroy the rule of law and you will rue the day it is gone completely.

  28. Note 30 Utter incomprehension of the value of the rule of law

    There have been many comments made on this board which demonstrate an utter incomprehension of the value of the “rule of law.” Simply stated the “rule of law” is the crown jewel of civilization , without no just society is possible, even thinkable. It took centuries of bloody struggle to achieve but it can be destroyed in only a few generations.

    From Thomas Baffy: American Thinker
    http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5450

    The United States is being “Mexicanized” as we watch. I am not talking about race or demographics at all. I mean that our system of governance is being undermined, and that if we let matters continue, we will end up with a political economy like Mexico’s – unable to provide good lives for most of its people, but very good indeed for the wealthy elite.

    I have no objection to any number of immigrants from any nation, if they enter the United States by following the rules. My objections center on the idea that our laws can be ignored by government officials when they deem them inconvenient to their own agenda.

    The concept of equal rights for all Americans also revolves around the idea that our laws are applied equally to all of us. When governments ignore certain laws, they are in effect repealing them. They have accomplished through fiat what no one could do in the legislatures or the courts. The Constitution is bypassed.

    Once this idea becomes accepted, lodged into theory and practice, your rights as an American are subject to the whim of government officials.

    By allowing certain law-breaking activities to go unpunished we send a clear message to everyone that it is acceptable to ignore laws that you do not agree with. Once individual government officials establish the principle of deciding for themselves what laws will (or will not) be enforced, the “culture of corruption” will be established. It will not matter which political party is in power.

    This creates the environment where government officials can be bought or coerced by “greasing the wheels” with a little influence money. We will have given up a great, if flawed, tradition of rule of law, replacing it with rule of the strong and rich. It will take bribes and favors to get anything accomplished just as it sometimes does in the governments of some of our southern neighbors.

    A corrupt system that entrenches the wealthy and powerful leads to economic failure, as it has in Mexico and would in the United States. Our class structure would evolve toward Mexico’s, with our middle class shrinking in the process.

    The only way to prevent such events from occurring is to insist that our government officials follow the rules and laws without exception. We are already on a slippery slope. Arbitrary or capricious disregard for the laws should be met with expulsion from office in all cases. If the law is not working for the country, then we should change it.

    Our elected officials should be forced to go “on the record” if they want to change laws. Then we can register our verdict the next time they run for office.

    It is plainly time for us to move the debate over illegal aliens to center on this point. Many other points in this issue are worth discussion, but this one is where we will either save our country or lose it.

    Thomas Baffy

  29. Note 30 Erasing a law by refusing to enforce it

    If our government continues to simply refuse to enforce a law because the current office holders do not like the policy embedded in the law, then the “rule of law” has suffered a great defeat.

    No one will be able to protect their rights by relying on the constitution or a statute because those rights will only be respected if the current elected officials support the policy. IN essence, this means that law has lost its ability to bind people, to control conduct, hence, it has ceased being law.

    My prayer is that the posters on this board meditate on this principle for a few minutes and then consider their hastily composed ideas on immigration reform in its light.

  30. An attorney general of the state of Kansas many years ago, Vern Miller, held that the best way to get bad law changed (or laws one didn’t agree with) was to enforce them vigorously. His vigorous enforcement of the Kansas law against serving liquor by the drink was a major reason it got changed. He enforced it on airliners flying over the state. He enforced it equally in every situation to which it applied. People didn’t like it, so it got changed. While I never liked Mr. Miller or many of his policies, I always enjoyed and appreciated this aspect of his legal philosophy.

    IMO, failure of the excutive branch (state or national) to enforce laws on the books simply because they are not liked, is an impeachable offense. If the legislatures who passed the laws had any guts, they’d do something about such malfesence in office.

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